Here's a reason Aki was better to sign than Kelly Johnson

[CAfan]

Who is the oft injured middle infielder?

[Bloop and a Blast]

Who is the oft injured middle infielder?

You didn't know that "oft" is actually a Japanese word, meaning once? Coincidentally, in Chinese, it translates to straw pulling.

[The Moose]

Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

How can you say that? The Nats have the #1 overall pick again this year. I don't think there's any question that the Nats will be big spenders in the draft again, this year. Especially so, if they draft Harper #1 overall.

[gamecckfn]

Why not then just play Vazquez at second and put that 5 mil towards another actually good, and not injured player?  Why not put it towards the draft?  Why should we accept a 35mil payroll?

Because Vazquez is terrible?  And they did not aquire an injured player.  Why do people act like there is some lingering issue here with Iwamura?  He did not even have major surgery.

Also, I am not sure why Gobucs seems to think there is no chance Iwamura would resign with the Pirates and that there is no chance that the Pirates offer him a deal.  They offered one to a 31 year old player that actualy does have injury problems with similar production the last three years.  

[gamecckfn]

True. But WE are spending 1/7 of our payroll on an average at best, oft injured middle infielder. 

We traded sanchez to the Giants, or are you talking about Wilson?  We traded him too.

[gamecckfn]

I noted this tidbit from a great article on the MLB Trade Rumors site about John Daniels, GM of the Rangers.

''They didn't get approval from MLB to sign Purke at a number to his liking, but they got Scheppers done.'

There were quite a few rumors out of Pittsburgh last year that MLB held up approval of their offers to several draft choices and that these players chose not to sign.  If the above statement is accurate out of the Rangers organization, it appears that MLB is playing a fairly heavy hand regarding the amount that a team can commit to the draft or to players in the draft.

As such, it appears that the Pirates cannot simply decide to spend as much as they choose on the draft.  MLB has established a formal or informal limit.  In short, coupled with the Pirate's current low payroll, the signing of Aki does not appear to have blocked any player or hamstrung any of their needs to invest in future talent.  

Its true as to the money being spent on A prospect.  Considering we didn't sign all of them, I'd say we could spend that 5 mil on the draft...legally. 

And I hate the excuse that one team budget is different from the other.  Its complete lunacy to believe that.

Since they are still well under their payroll budget with Iwamura, and did not reach their limit in Latin America or the draft last year, shouldnt they have plenty to use on the draft this year with Iwamura?  It is tough to sign more players if you cannot get the players to wait to sign the contracts.

Using Iwamura's contract as a reason we cannot sign players does not make sense to begin with, but it makes even less sense if you do not believe in seperate budgets (which most business do budget seperate parts of their business seperately).

[gamecckfn]

Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

How can you say that? The Nats have the #1 overall pick again this year. I don't think there's any question that the Nats will be big spenders in the draft again, this year. Especially so, if they draft Harper #1 overall.

Of course, that is only after the Pirates decide they will not pay Harper and decide not to draft him at #2 overall.

[7Springs]

True. But WE are spending 1/7 of our payroll on an average at best, oft injured middle infielder. 

We traded sanchez to the Giants, or are you talking about Wilson?  We traded him too.

Iwamura.

[gamecckfn]

True. But WE are spending 1/7 of our payroll on an average at best, oft injured middle infielder. 

We traded sanchez to the Giants, or are you talking about Wilson?  We traded him too.

Iwamura.

Iwamura what?  He takes up close to 1/7th of the payroll, but he is not oft injured.

[The Moose]

Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

How can you say that? The Nats have the #1 overall pick again this year. I don't think there's any question that the Nats will be big spenders in the draft again, this year. Especially so, if they draft Harper #1 overall.

Of course, that is only after the Pirates decide they will not pay Harper and decide not to draft him at #2 overall.

What are you prattling on about, GCF? Are you trying to be funny? and failing?

[SyrBucco]

let me see if I can make this clear for you RJ.  What I was attempting to say is that you can spend 5M on a player that will contribute in a positive manner on the ML club, or 5M on a few draftees that may never play on the club.  That 5M for draftees is above and beyond what clubs have shown to be the optimum pool of cash used for draftees.  I say there is a ceiling because if there weren't, teams that are loaded would spend huge amounts more on the draft than the poorer clubs.  So if you spend more on the draft than that amount, the money is being spent in an even riskier way than the rest of the draft money.  There is only so much talent available in one draft so in essence you would be spending more money on players that are less likely to ever make the MLs.  That is what I meant by there being a diminishing return on the draft investment. 

If we were talking about a Pirates team that couldn't afford to spend the money on Iwamura's salary I might have a different opinion, but that is not the case here.  Paying Aki isn't keeping anyone of greater value off this team.  Paying Aki is not taking money away from signing better players in 2010. 

I'd like to hope that you are right about the money being there to spend. It has been a criticism of mine for as long as I can remember...that they seem to save money all over the place and never spend it when warranted. It's just my feeling...and again we just differ here...that giving Aki $5 mil to play here in 2010 does the 2011 team no good whatsoever. Nor the 2012, 2013, etc... incarnations of the PBC. There is a tangible chance, however, that an extra signed draftee/international signee (or three or four) that the $5 mil was used for COULD help in a future year or years. I would rather spend the money for the chance to have a better future than spend on on the chance of having 3-4 extra wins in 2010 by having Iwamura play for us.

RJR

I would argue that the Pirates need the common perception to become that they are a young and improving team that will spend money to fill holes as needed to put a competitive product on the field. Improved performance in 2010 will help the 2011 team by making the Pirates a more attractive destination for players weighing salary decisions.
To use a Steeler analogy, I'll bet that Randle El, and prolly some other FA signees, took lower or equal offers from the Steelers in part due to the fine reputation of that organization. I'll likewise bet that the Pirates have had to overpay to get FA talent to sign with them, in part due to their poor reputation.
I don't think that the ship can be turned around in a single year. I think we need to show improvement THIS YEAR, to help set the stage for a successful 2011.
Biut that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[GoBucs21]

Why not then just play Vazquez at second and put that 5 mil towards another actually good, and not injured player?  Why not put it towards the draft?  Why should we accept a 35mil payroll?

Because Vazquez is terrible?  And they did not aquire an injured player.  Why do people act like there is some lingering issue here with Iwamura?  He did not even have major surgery.

Also, I am not sure why Gobucs seems to think there is no chance Iwamura would resign with the Pirates and that there is no chance that the Pirates offer him a deal.  They offered one to a 31 year old player that actualy does have injury problems with similar production the last three years.  

Because Iwamura is 30 years old, that's the primary reason.  His agent understands that player with his skills, at that age are on their last shot at a big, long term contract.  If he has a very good year, he's going to want four years or more.  Given that he's making $4.M now, he's going to want closer to $7M or $8M a year.  Iwamura's agent isn't going to allow him to take a short term, team friendly deal.  The Pirates won't and shouldn't do that much.

If he isn't good, the Pirates won't want him, nor should they.  Good or bad, he won't be with the Pirates next season.

[kansasfan]

Do you realize how many infielders signed deals for more than 2 years this offseason?  A total of 2.  Not a lot of long-term deals being given out for infielders in free agency these days.  On the flip side of the argument, those two were Polanco and Figgins, whom I don't see being much better than Aki.  All three of their WAR is typically in the 2.5 - 3.0 range, Figgins had a great year last year (and got overpaid for it), Polanco seems to have a reputation of being better than he is and got $6M/year, probably about right.

Anyway, the odds of Aki getting a long-term deal from someone after this season probably aren't real good.  And if the Pirates still feel that there is no one in the system ready to be the starting 2B in 2011, it would not surprise me at all to see the Pirates offer Aki a deal similar to what they offered Sanchez last year -- 2 yr / $10M-12M -- if he's doing well.  He might not take it, but the offer will be there.

Either way, having a legitimate 2B on the field and in the batting order this year will be a welcome sight to my eyes.

[GoBucs21]

Do you realize how many infielders signed deals for more than 2 years this offseason?  A total of 2.  Not a lot of long-term deals being given out for infielders in free agency these days.  On the flip side of the argument, those two were Polanco and Figgins, whom I don't see being much better than Aki.  All three of their WAR is typically in the 2.5 - 3.0 range, Figgins had a great year last year (and got overpaid for it), Polanco seems to have a reputation of being better than he is and got $6M/year, probably about right.

Anyway, the odds of Aki getting a long-term deal from someone after this season probably aren't real good.  And if the Pirates still feel that there is no one in the system ready to be the starting 2B in 2011, it would not surprise me at all to see the Pirates offer Aki a deal similar to what they offered Sanchez last year -- 2 yr / $10M-12M -- if he's doing well.  He might not take it, but the offer will be there.

Either way, having a legitimate 2B on the field and in the batting order this year will be a welcome sight to my eyes.

OK.  We will see if he is here after this season. I'm betting he won't be.

[RJReynolds]

Not to rehash the pain that has become Iwamura or do an "I told you so"...but this thread is quite telling regarding the way we as Pirate fans tend to look at players from other teams. Whether it's Iwamura or Hart or Milledge or Clement or a host of other players. The grass always seems to be greener everywhere but Pittsburgh, and when a player comes to us from another organization we (myself included) have a tendancy to look at the player in the best possible light. Most likely because we haven't seen the player very often and want him to succeed, we seem to hope against hope that the reasons he was available in the first place...reasons that the people who have seen the player everyday would know...somehow might just go away ahen the player puts on our uniform. As if there is some special magic that rarely if ever comes to fruition.

I am as guilty of this as anyone else. Dotel, Milledge and Clement are recent examples of this.

Basically, I can't wait until the day that this team can stop depending on other team's flotsam and castaways, can stop giving pitchers with great stuff 2,3, or 4 years before they finally cut ties, can actually have enough talent throughout the system that they can take players like Iwamura and not be affected if he doesn't pan out. I can't wait until they have enough talent to not have to suffer through catastrophe after catastrophe with the pitcher because him not panning out sets the organization's competitive timetable back umpteen years. I can't wait until the Pirates don't have to wait. I fear it will never happen.

And I pray that NH knows what the heck he is doing.

RJR