Here's a reason Aki was better to sign than Kelly Johnson

[gorillagogo]

The Tigers? The Pirates aren't about to go bring in veterans like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Placido Polanco or Carlos Guillen any time soon.

[gorillagogo]

I would also like to know what good iwamura and his one year deal do for this team. Unless he literally out of nowhere starts to hit .350, his value is......less than the 5 mil we are giving him.

His contract is why I don't think he will be here next year.  If he is lights out good, he's gone as a free agent.  If he's marginal to bad, the Pirates don't want him back.

Iwamura is nice player and nothing more.  Why else did the Rays trade him for a reliever?

The Rays took an utility player, who had never played an inning at second base in the majors, and made him their full time second baseman.  Oh yes, he was light years better than Iwamura.  His name is Ben Zobrist.

It can be done, people just have to get out of the "can't do" attitude.

Nobody's saying it can't be done. People are just acknowledging that it's extremely unlikely to succeed. Just because the Rays hit the jackpot last year doesn't mean the Pirates are any more likely to this season.

[Bloop and a Blast]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

[GoBucs21]

The Tigers? The Pirates aren't about to go bring in veterans like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Placido Polanco or Carlos Guillen any time soon.

Look you said that bottoming out could hurt the team, I just pointed out a recent success story of a team that had bottomed out.

Personally, I don't buy the idea of destroying a team's character or will to win because they had one awful season.  Honestly after 17 straight losing seasons, I don't see how anything too bad could happen to them.

[CAfan]

Zobrist had in fact played 2B in the majors, as well as a little in the minors, though his primary position was SS.  That conversion is far more common and much more easily made.  I can give you a list of dozens of SS's who successfully converted to 2B and 3B, the list of 3B who convert to those positions is far smaller.  I suppose it can be done.

My real point in all of this is that a rebuilding team, still needs to put players into positions that fit and to support there pitching staff.  I think the value of having stable entities in the field is that they allow the pitchers to pitch to the pirates gameplan. If you have a staff that is being asked to work fast, throw strikes and induce groundballs, and then you put a 2Bman in Young out there who can't do his part then you are causing more damage than good.  no more evaluation is needed to know that Young is a man without a position.  LaRoche is a possibility, I'll concede that and I'm hopeful, but we still had a whole to fill.

Anyone who thinks Walker is a viable major league option as a starting player is being blinded by some form of bias.  I'm not giving up on him entirely, but he should be groomed for a different expectation than starting player.

[gorillagogo]

The Tigers? The Pirates aren't about to go bring in veterans like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Placido Polanco or Carlos Guillen any time soon.

Look you said that bottoming out could hurt the team, I just pointed out a recent success story of a team that had bottomed out.

Personally, I don't buy the idea of destroying a team's character or will to win because they had one awful season.  Honestly after 17 straight losing seasons, I don't see how anything too bad could happen to them.

You sound like you're more interested in scoring debate points. The Tigers "success story" meant three or four years of importing veterans to go with a handful of young players from their bottoming out season, as well as bringing in Jim Leyland to run the show. That's not even remotely close to the template the Pirates are using.

[GoBucs21]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

PJ I didn't know it was you misrepresenting what I write.

Shall we talk about the likelihood of Iwamura playing very well, since much of this discussion is about the likelihood of things happening?  He's a .280 hitter with some good OBP skills coming off an injury at age 30.  The likelihood of him being so good the Pirate will try to sign him is minimal.

The likelihood of him being dealt in a Freddy Sanchez deal is even less likely.  Is Iwamura likely to win a batting title to increase his value?  The Rays coughed him up for a marginal reliever.  I don't see his trade value improving in a half season or a season and a half, especially when you are looking at trading a 31 going on 32 year old player.  

I don't see any scenario that keeps Iwamura here more than one season.  If he plays well, he becomes a free agent to get a long term (read 3 year plus).  At 30 years old, he will be looking for a big, long pay day.  He won't a sign a one or two year deal with the Pirates.

If he stinks, the Pirates want him gone.

Lets talk about the Nationals.  Yes, they've signed some vets.  Aside from Dunn, I like none of the signings.  Dunn was a good deal, IMO the others weren't.  Also, IMO, the IRod and Wang deals were awful.  So you can admit that I'm consistent.

I will say this about the Nationals.  They don't cheap out anywhere now.  Yes, they make FA signings but they also heavily invest elsewhere.  You love to talk about how much the Pirates have spent on the draft but who spent the most on the draft last year?  If the Pirates did that, I really wouldn't mind some of the moves but they don't.

Again, you can own up to my consistency, including screennames, anytime you want.

[GoBucs21]

Zobrist had in fact played 2B in the majors, as well as a little in the minors, though his primary position was SS.  That conversion is far more common and much more easily made.  I can give you a list of dozens of SS's who successfully converted to 2B and 3B, the list of 3B who convert to those positions is far smaller.  I suppose it can be done.

My real point in all of this is that a rebuilding team, still needs to put players into positions that fit and to support there pitching staff.  I think the value of having stable entities in the field is that they allow the pitchers to pitch to the pirates gameplan. If you have a staff that is being asked to work fast, throw strikes and induce groundballs, and then you put a 2Bman in Young out there who can't do his part then you are causing more damage than good.  no more evaluation is needed to know that Young is a man without a position.  LaRoche is a possibility, I'll concede that and I'm hopeful, but we still had a whole to fill.

Anyone who thinks Walker is a viable major league option as a starting player is being blinded by some form of bias.  I'm not giving up on him entirely, but he should be groomed for a different expectation than starting player.

And my point is that Iwamura isn't that much of a difference, not a $4.5M difference.

You know PJ or B&aB, whoever he is calls me negative but yet, you have written off Walker at age 23 and nothing is said.

I have no bias as it relates to Walker.  I think D'Arnaud is the second baseman of the future.  I just don't like seeing rent-a-vets.  We've been there and done that.

[GoBucs21]

The Tigers? The Pirates aren't about to go bring in veterans like Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Placido Polanco or Carlos Guillen any time soon.

Look you said that bottoming out could hurt the team, I just pointed out a recent success story of a team that had bottomed out.

Personally, I don't buy the idea of destroying a team's character or will to win because they had one awful season.  Honestly after 17 straight losing seasons, I don't see how anything too bad could happen to them.

You sound like you're more interested in scoring debate points. The Tigers "success story" meant three or four years of importing veterans to go with a handful of young players from their bottoming out season, as well as bringing in Jim Leyland to run the show. That's not even remotely close to the template the Pirates are using.

Then score your own debate points.  Tell me how losing 110+ games destroys the morale of this team?  What is the basis of your opinion?

If you don't like my opinions, why not just stop replying.  I'm not changing my opinion.

If you haven't noticed, I enjoy the debate.

[Bloop and a Blast]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

PJ I didn't know it was you misrepresenting what I write.

Shall we talk about the likelihood of Iwamura playing very well, since much of this discussion is about the likelihood of things happening?  He's a .280 hitter with some good OBP skills coming off an injury at age 30.  The likelihood of him being so good the Pirate will try to sign him is minimal.

The likelihood of him being dealt in a Freddy Sanchez deal is even less likely.  Is Iwamura likely to win a batting title to increase his value?  The Rays coughed him up for a marginal reliever.  I don't see his trade value improving in a half season or a season and a half, especially when you are looking at trading a 31 going on 32 year old player.  

I don't see any scenario that keeps Iwamura here more than one season.  If he plays well, he becomes a free agent to get a long term (read 3 year plus).  At 30 years old, he will be looking for a big, long pay day.  He won't a sign a one or two year deal with the Pirates.

If he stinks, the Pirates want him gone.

Lets talk about the Nationals.  Yes, they've signed some vets.  Aside from Dunn, I like none of the signings.  Dunn was a good deal, IMO the others weren't.  Also, IMO, the IRod and Wang deals were awful.  So you can admit that I'm consistent.

I will say this about the Nationals.  They don't cheap out anywhere now.  Yes, they make FA signings but they also heavily invest elsewhere.  You love to talk about how much the Pirates have spent on the draft but who spent the most on the draft last year?  If the Pirates did that, I really wouldn't mind some of the moves but they don't.

Again, you can own up to my consistency, including screennames, anytime you want.

Do me a favor and provide the dollars spent by the Nats in both the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

[GoBucs21]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

PJ I didn't know it was you misrepresenting what I write.

Shall we talk about the likelihood of Iwamura playing very well, since much of this discussion is about the likelihood of things happening?  He's a .280 hitter with some good OBP skills coming off an injury at age 30.  The likelihood of him being so good the Pirate will try to sign him is minimal.

The likelihood of him being dealt in a Freddy Sanchez deal is even less likely.  Is Iwamura likely to win a batting title to increase his value?  The Rays coughed him up for a marginal reliever.  I don't see his trade value improving in a half season or a season and a half, especially when you are looking at trading a 31 going on 32 year old player.  

I don't see any scenario that keeps Iwamura here more than one season.  If he plays well, he becomes a free agent to get a long term (read 3 year plus).  At 30 years old, he will be looking for a big, long pay day.  He won't a sign a one or two year deal with the Pirates.

If he stinks, the Pirates want him gone.

Lets talk about the Nationals.  Yes, they've signed some vets.  Aside from Dunn, I like none of the signings.  Dunn was a good deal, IMO the others weren't.  Also, IMO, the IRod and Wang deals were awful.  So you can admit that I'm consistent.

I will say this about the Nationals.  They don't cheap out anywhere now.  Yes, they make FA signings but they also heavily invest elsewhere.  You love to talk about how much the Pirates have spent on the draft but who spent the most on the draft last year?  If the Pirates did that, I really wouldn't mind some of the moves but they don't.

Again, you can own up to my consistency, including screennames, anytime you want.

Do me a favor and provide the dollars spent by the Nats in both the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Nice try.  I said the Nationals spent more last year.

[7Springs]

Do me a favor and provide the dollars spent by the Nats in both the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Uh, they signed Strasburg to a huge deal that I'm pretty sure wouldn't have done and/or needed MLB to step in and extend us some extra time illegally.

[Bloop and a Blast]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

PJ I didn't know it was you misrepresenting what I write.

Shall we talk about the likelihood of Iwamura playing very well, since much of this discussion is about the likelihood of things happening?  He's a .280 hitter with some good OBP skills coming off an injury at age 30.  The likelihood of him being so good the Pirate will try to sign him is minimal.

The likelihood of him being dealt in a Freddy Sanchez deal is even less likely.  Is Iwamura likely to win a batting title to increase his value?  The Rays coughed him up for a marginal reliever.  I don't see his trade value improving in a half season or a season and a half, especially when you are looking at trading a 31 going on 32 year old player.  

I don't see any scenario that keeps Iwamura here more than one season.  If he plays well, he becomes a free agent to get a long term (read 3 year plus).  At 30 years old, he will be looking for a big, long pay day.  He won't a sign a one or two year deal with the Pirates.

If he stinks, the Pirates want him gone.

Lets talk about the Nationals.  Yes, they've signed some vets.  Aside from Dunn, I like none of the signings.  Dunn was a good deal, IMO the others weren't.  Also, IMO, the IRod and Wang deals were awful.  So you can admit that I'm consistent.

I will say this about the Nationals.  They don't cheap out anywhere now.  Yes, they make FA signings but they also heavily invest elsewhere.  You love to talk about how much the Pirates have spent on the draft but who spent the most on the draft last year?  If the Pirates did that, I really wouldn't mind some of the moves but they don't.

Again, you can own up to my consistency, including screennames, anytime you want.

Do me a favor and provide the dollars spent by the Nats in both the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Nice try.  I said the Nationals spent more last year.

No, I asked for the ammounts they spent in each of the last two years on the draft. I know they spent more last year because of ONE player, a once in a decade player. Can you just give me those amounts?

[GoBucs21]

GB, what would you feel about this if Iwamura plays very well this year and is either re-signed for a year or two more, or he's dealt for a prospect that's his near term replacement? In other words, like Sanchez last year, if Iwamura is dealt to a contender for a prospect of the caliber of Alderson and he ultimately gave us production while he played, cost us only $2.5 - $3M while he was here and netted us a prospect with a higher ceiling than Chavez, how would you view the situation then?

I know you're a Nats fan and have constantly defended the signings of rentals they've signed, despite them not having any chance to contend (Marquis, Dunn, Rodriguez, Capps, Cabrera, Wang, Kenedy). Your point has been that the signings, while perhaps blocking prospects, don't prohibit them from rebuilding or spending money in the draft. The Pirates have lowered their payroll and doubled their draft budget, spending more than $20M in the last two years in the draft and LA.

My question to you is this. How can you justify a losing franchise like the Nats spending to plug holes, signing rent-a-vets and players that have no future on any winning team there ("lost seasons"), but condemn the Pirates for doing the same thing at 20% of the cost? Please don't use Strasburg as your proof that they are spending more $ in their drafts either. That's a once in a decade cost.

PJ I didn't know it was you misrepresenting what I write.

Shall we talk about the likelihood of Iwamura playing very well, since much of this discussion is about the likelihood of things happening?  He's a .280 hitter with some good OBP skills coming off an injury at age 30.  The likelihood of him being so good the Pirate will try to sign him is minimal.

The likelihood of him being dealt in a Freddy Sanchez deal is even less likely.  Is Iwamura likely to win a batting title to increase his value?  The Rays coughed him up for a marginal reliever.  I don't see his trade value improving in a half season or a season and a half, especially when you are looking at trading a 31 going on 32 year old player.  

I don't see any scenario that keeps Iwamura here more than one season.  If he plays well, he becomes a free agent to get a long term (read 3 year plus).  At 30 years old, he will be looking for a big, long pay day.  He won't a sign a one or two year deal with the Pirates.

If he stinks, the Pirates want him gone.

Lets talk about the Nationals.  Yes, they've signed some vets.  Aside from Dunn, I like none of the signings.  Dunn was a good deal, IMO the others weren't.  Also, IMO, the IRod and Wang deals were awful.  So you can admit that I'm consistent.

I will say this about the Nationals.  They don't cheap out anywhere now.  Yes, they make FA signings but they also heavily invest elsewhere.  You love to talk about how much the Pirates have spent on the draft but who spent the most on the draft last year?  If the Pirates did that, I really wouldn't mind some of the moves but they don't.

Again, you can own up to my consistency, including screennames, anytime you want.

Do me a favor and provide the dollars spent by the Nats in both the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Nice try.  I said the Nationals spent more last year.

No, I asked for the ammounts they spent in each of the last two years on the draft. I know they spent more last year because of ONE player, a once in a decade player. Can you just give me those amounts?

About $17M on their first two picks last year.  Again, I spoke of only last year.  I also said I hated the "veteran presence" signings this year.

[CAfan]

If people want to call me to task for being negative about Neil Walker, then by all means do so.  I see the numbers, the lack of success, the overwhelming lack of plate discipline, and I recognize that he has stopped improving, likely regressed.  Then I add that together with his conspiracy theory argument that he provided last year, and I see a potential problem for those that still look at him as part of the future.

Is that a negative view? I suppose it is as negative as his play on the field.

Regardless I respect your opinion, I disagree, I don't think younger and cheaper automatically equates to rebuilding. I value having some balance to the rebuilding (especially the D to support young pitchers), not putting square pegs in round holes, cutting your losses with certain players, or moving them if they have more value to another org than your own (i.e. Bixler).