Here's a reason Aki was better to sign than Kelly Johnson

[Dignan]

Not to rehash the pain that has become Iwamura or do an "I told you so"...but this thread is quite telling regarding the way we as Pirate fans tend to look at players from other teams. Whether it's Iwamura or Hart or Milledge or Clement or a host of other players. The grass always seems to be greener everywhere but Pittsburgh, and when a player comes to us from another organization we (myself included) have a tendancy to look at the player in the best possible light. Most likely because we haven't seen the player very often and want him to succeed, we seem to hope against hope that the reasons he was available in the first place...reasons that the people who have seen the player everyday would know...somehow might just go away ahen the player puts on our uniform. As if there is some special magic that rarely if ever comes to fruition.

I am as guilty of this as anyone else. Dotel, Milledge and Clement are recent examples of this.

Basically, I can't wait until the day that this team can stop depending on other team's flotsam and castaways, can stop giving pitchers with great stuff 2,3, or 4 years before they finally cut ties, can actually have enough talent throughout the system that they can take players like Iwamura and not be affected if he doesn't pan out. I can't wait until they have enough talent to not have to suffer through catastrophe after catastrophe with the pitcher because him not panning out sets the organization's competitive timetable back umpteen years. I can't wait until the Pirates don't have to wait. I fear it will never happen.

And I pray that NH knows what the heck he is doing.

RJR

Looks like I'll be happy once the Bradenton Marauders become the Pittsburgh Pirates, although there sure is some interesting talent in AA and AAA too, just not as high a concentration of it.

[kansasfan]

I was not in the Kelly Johnson camp, but did you realize he has an OPS of over 1.000?

[wvbucco]

Wow!  301/389/677.  That's quite the stat line.   9 home runs in 93 at bats!!!!!

[CentralCABucsFan]

I actually preferred Hudson over both Johnson and Iwamura.

I don't think Johnson is this good or Iwamura is this bad, but I was wrong to consider them about equal, as Iwamura won't hit 9 homers all year.

It seems that Huntington's worst moves are the first ones of the off season.  Gomez, Vazquez, Torres trade and Iwamura trade.

[81omar]

   In the end it turns out they wanted both of them,Johnson was given a pretty good offer from the Bucs but DBacks probably topped it plus promised more playing time so it was never Aki or Kelly

[WTM]

it was never Aki or Kelly

Couldn't have been.  The Pirates traded for Iwamura on Nov. 3, just before the Rays' deadline for exercising his option.  In another day or two he'd have become a FA.  Nobody knew Johnson was going to be a FA until over a month later, when the Braves non-tendered him.  The real question is whether NH should have realized the FA market for secondbasemen would become as favorable as it did.  Or whether he should just have stayed away from Iwamura.

[MattB]

The Pirates were looking at Johnson as an outfielder, I assume to fill the spot that eventually went to Church.  Johnson reportedly wanted to stay at 2B.  I read recently that another team (can’t remember which one, off the top of my head) gave him a better offer than Arizona to play right field, but he turned it down to stay in the infield.

[RJReynolds]

it was never Aki or Kelly

Couldn't have been.  The Pirates traded for Iwamura on Nov. 3, just before the Rays' deadline for exercising his option.  In another day or two he'd have become a FA.  Nobody knew Johnson was going to be a FA until over a month later, when the Braves non-tendered him.  The real question is whether NH should have realized the FA market for secondbasemen would become as favorable as it did.  Or whether he should just have stayed away from Iwamura.

Bingo. Iwamura was already in the fold by the time Johnson became available. And I don't think anyone could have reasonably thought that Johnson would get off to the start that he has thus far. But by bringing in Iwamura, the Pirates effectively were "set" at the position going into this year. With him aging and coming off a major injury (suddenly not a strawman arguement by the way), my contention has always been that he never should have been targeted in the first place. At best he was a one year rental, which the Pirates at this stage of the game should have no use for. A player like Johnson, or Young or Laroche or (as it turns out) Walker from within could give the team options at the position for years to come.

Had Iwamura panned out, the best scenario would have him traded at mid season for prospects. With him looking as he is, there really isn't a best case scenario. Why this didn't occor to NH and the braintrust last November I don't know. There was little upside to the move and a lot of downside...which included not only the monetary investment but the loss of time and at bats and innings of evaluation of other players in the field.

RJR

[A. Senter]

When your argument includes being upset about losing Jesse Chavez, I stop reading. And the Pirates havent had veteran leadership in the last 17 years. Don't talk about a Giles or Kendall because those two were the biggest jerks in baseball. And Jack and Freddy were too pissed about contracts and rebuilds when it was their team that they weren't real leaders. This team knows that they are gonna be together for a bit. Aki is the only guy that could leave but he is one of the best guys in baseball and acts like a true pro. And why te big fuss over Kelley Johnson, I'll male a wager with anyone that Aki has a better year.

Spot on analysis, here.

[WTM]

It's a matter of opinion whether Iwamura's injury was "major."  The ACL was only partially torn and he did not have reconstructive surgery.  The fact is, though, that his range now is poor and he doesn't turn DPs well, so that may be the knee.  It's WAY too early to give up on him offense-wise, but his defense isn't likely to improve any time soon.

The only downside to Iwamura is the money, which is a sunk cost for Nutting that shouldn't bother anybody.  By their own admission, they still have money to increase payroll or spend more in the draft or LA, so whatever they throw away on Iwamura doesn't affect anything other than Nutting's wallet.  Walker wasn't going to start the season as the regular at second--it's still an open question whether he can even hit consistently in AAA, much less the majors, but there's far more reason for optimism now.  As it stands, Walker's earned a shot at the majors and there's nothing beyond a Delwyn Young DFA to stop the Pirates from bringing Walker up and giving him a chance to earn more and more time at second.  They're in a much better position to do that now than they were a month ago.  The big question is whether NH is willing to try it.  If they'd signed, say, Orlando Hudson, there'd be no chance of that happening.  Iwamura, however, is easily disposable, unless you'd be heartbroken about Nutting's wallet.

[RJReynolds]

It's a matter of opinion whether Iwamura's injury was "major."  The ACL was only partially torn and he did not have reconstructive surgery.  The fact is, though, that his range now is poor and he doesn't turn DPs well, so that may be the knee.  It's WAY too early to give up on him offense-wise, but his defense isn't likely to improve any time soon.

The only downside to Iwamura is the money, which is a sunk cost for Nutting that shouldn't bother anybody.  By their own admission, they still have money to increase payroll or spend more in the draft or LA, so whatever they throw away on Iwamura doesn't affect anything other than Nutting's wallet.  Walker wasn't going to start the season as the regular at second--it's still an open question whether he can even hit consistently in AAA, much less the majors, but there's far more reason for optimism now.  As it stands, Walker's earned a shot at the majors and there's nothing beyond a Delwyn Young DFA to stop the Pirates from bringing Walker up and giving him a chance to earn more and more time at second.  They're in a much better position to do that now than they were a month ago.  The big question is whether NH is willing to try it.  If they'd signed, say, Orlando Hudson, there'd be no chance of that happening.  Iwamura, however, is easily disposable, unless you'd be heartbroken about Nutting's wallet.

Problem is that every at bat Iwamura has received thus far, every inning he has played in the field thus far, and every game he plays for the Pirates going forward is a missed opportunity to see if Laroche can (could have) handle the position, whether Young can or could handle the position. Now he may be standing in the way of seeing if Walker can handle every day pitching at the big league level. It's simply something that the Pirates never should have undertaken to begin with. There was little upside to his coming here, and the downside is now showing to be playing a below average player at a position where you should be evaluating people for the future championships.

RJR

[Dignan]

I wonder if Iwamura might hit a little bit better off the bench if he's getting less wear and tear on his knee.  He does show a good approach at least at times, taking a lot of pitches (although I'm not sure if this is as big a deal for a pinch hitter).  If they were to DFA Young and put Iwamura in Young's role more or less, while giving Walker a chance to start at 2B at least for a while I wouldn't be offended.

[WTM]

Let's not bring Young into this.  We've seen what he can do.  The Dodgers gave up on him as an infielder years ago and he's spent plenty of time with the Pirates proving them right.

[RJReynolds]

Let's not bring Young into this.  We've seen what he can do.  The Dodgers gave up on him as an infielder years ago and he's spent plenty of time with the Pirates proving them right.

I would still rather have given an opportunity to someone with a 2% chance of being a part of this team in 2011 and beyond than someone (Iwamura) with a 0% chance.

RJR

[kansasfan]

RJR you have stated some good arguments from the start against bringing in Aki but I agree with WTM that up to this point there has been no harm of Aki playing 2B (that is he has not been taking away at bats from anyone that I would have given them to).  At this point though I would much rather see if LaRoche can play there or if Walker can hit in the majors rather than watching Aki struggle any more.  LaRoche and Walker might be long term solutions at 2B but clearly Aki is not. It took me a month to see that while you were advocating this before the season.